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	<title>Comments on: Ito Hirobumi becomes Japan&#8217;s First Prime Minister</title>
	<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/</link>
	<description>Independent Podcasting from Tokyo. Featuring Seijigiri, a discussion of Japanese news and politics, as well as TPR News, our twice a week look at Japan's top stories.</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:22:04 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.3</generator>

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		<title>by: Smiley</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-445947</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 17:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-445947</guid>
					<description>the top pic if not Ito...it's Kuroda Kiyotaka</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the top pic if not Ito&#8230;it&#8217;s Kuroda Kiyotaka
</p>
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		<title>by: ponta</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4332</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:16:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4332</guid>
					<description>Deorio
thanks You are polite too. Keep up the good work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deorio<br />
thanks You are polite too. Keep up the good work.
</p>
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		<title>by: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4283</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Dec 2006 03:22:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4283</guid>
					<description>&lt;em&gt;Oh, and you needn’t worry about offending me, provided you don’t say anything untoward about any women related to me by blood or marriage.&lt;/em&gt;

Or both.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Oh, and you needn’t worry about offending me, provided you don’t say anything untoward about any women related to me by blood or marriage.</em></p>
<p>Or both.
</p>
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		<title>by: DeOrio</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4262</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4262</guid>
					<description>Oh, and you needn't worry about offending me, provided you don't say anything untoward about any women related to me by blood or marriage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and you needn&#8217;t worry about offending me, provided you don&#8217;t say anything untoward about any women related to me by blood or marriage.
</p>
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		<title>by: DeOrio</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4261</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:36:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4261</guid>
					<description>Ponta, you're too polite, my friend.

You're right.  Now that I look back at what I wrote, it does sound a bit condescending.  The US is no better position than any other country to lecture anyone on the proper conduct of public office.  It would take a fool to suggest that the US had somehow avoided malfeasance in its officials.

Ironically, I'm going to leapfrog you and say that I'm not so sure that the US is more politically and economically developed than Japan.  In terms of economics, Japan has a higher per capita income, a longer life expectancy, and a higher standard of living (by most composite measures) than the US.  It also has a comparable rate of secondary education, a higerh literacy rate, and higher percentage of the population employed in key sectors, such as engineering.  Yes, the US has a larger economy and, in my opinion, has more innovative business practices, but it also has more than twice the population, many times the land area, a more liberal immigration policy (which I think accounts for a lot), and better branding.  There's a strong case to be made for Japan being more &quot;advanced.&quot;  Japan posted three decades of economic growth figures the US has never touched, for instance.  It still has lower tax rates than the US, despite its broader social services, and has lower unemployment.

You point out that US law has influenced Japanese law, and I think that is true.  However, at this point in time, even though I am no fan of the LDP, I'd rather see the Japanese Government lecturing the US than the other way around.  Someone needs to remind the US Government of the American values they are so keen to spread, but have forgotten.

Had Ito been tried, I think a lot would have been different in the late Meiji and Taisho eras, but I don't think much would be different today.  As far as I know (which isn't very far), the points on which Okuma and Ito differed would not have averted the junta of the early Showa era, which changed everything that came after.

Thanks for pointing out what my wording implied.  You're right.  Not being Japanese, when I say &quot;this nation&quot; is does imply a contrast with another nation, which, it is reasonable to assume, would be the US.
Now, while the US is clearly the greatest nation that has ever existed and Americans are clearly the master race. . . (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.  Tongue firmly in cheek.  I want to make it clear that I'm joking there.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ponta, you&#8217;re too polite, my friend.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re right.  Now that I look back at what I wrote, it does sound a bit condescending.  The US is no better position than any other country to lecture anyone on the proper conduct of public office.  It would take a fool to suggest that the US had somehow avoided malfeasance in its officials.</p>
<p>Ironically, I&#8217;m going to leapfrog you and say that I&#8217;m not so sure that the US is more politically and economically developed than Japan.  In terms of economics, Japan has a higher per capita income, a longer life expectancy, and a higher standard of living (by most composite measures) than the US.  It also has a comparable rate of secondary education, a higerh literacy rate, and higher percentage of the population employed in key sectors, such as engineering.  Yes, the US has a larger economy and, in my opinion, has more innovative business practices, but it also has more than twice the population, many times the land area, a more liberal immigration policy (which I think accounts for a lot), and better branding.  There&#8217;s a strong case to be made for Japan being more &#8220;advanced.&#8221;  Japan posted three decades of economic growth figures the US has never touched, for instance.  It still has lower tax rates than the US, despite its broader social services, and has lower unemployment.</p>
<p>You point out that US law has influenced Japanese law, and I think that is true.  However, at this point in time, even though I am no fan of the LDP, I&#8217;d rather see the Japanese Government lecturing the US than the other way around.  Someone needs to remind the US Government of the American values they are so keen to spread, but have forgotten.</p>
<p>Had Ito been tried, I think a lot would have been different in the late Meiji and Taisho eras, but I don&#8217;t think much would be different today.  As far as I know (which isn&#8217;t very far), the points on which Okuma and Ito differed would not have averted the junta of the early Showa era, which changed everything that came after.</p>
<p>Thanks for pointing out what my wording implied.  You&#8217;re right.  Not being Japanese, when I say &#8220;this nation&#8221; is does imply a contrast with another nation, which, it is reasonable to assume, would be the US.<br />
Now, while the US is clearly the greatest nation that has ever existed and Americans are clearly the master race. . . (Nudge, nudge, wink, wink.  Tongue firmly in cheek.  I want to make it clear that I&#8217;m joking there.)
</p>
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		<title>by: ponta</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4238</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4238</guid>
					<description>Deorio
Thanks
Fair enough. And it helped a lot to understand your point. .Thanks.
My first impression reading that part was that the causal connection between Ito's case and the present political situation as described might not be strong enough.
 It might be true that if Ito's case was tried, Japanese political situation as it is might be different. But it might also be true that even if Ito's case was tried, Japanese political situation might be the same because the other factors are making the present situation as it is.

And the point that made me pick up Thomas Jefferson is the way you put the final sentence.
&lt;blockquote&gt;a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn&lt;/blockquote&gt;
 It might be my prejudice, but it sounded like you were from a superior nation, and it was your burden or something to teach what the rule of law is.
  USA is more developed politically and economically. I have all the respect for USA. And actually Japanese  have learned the rule of law mainly from USA. Japanese present constitution is heavily influenced by American thought.
 But somehow, I sensed a sort of superior complex from the sentence, or it may be the reflection of my inferior complex. Either way, I wanted to ascertain your mindset toward it: You have  proved to be fair.
Sorry if I offended you.

I think it is helpful for Japanese people to show how 
USA has tackled the similar issue, in order to understand Japanese issue better. 

Thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deorio<br />
Thanks<br />
Fair enough. And it helped a lot to understand your point. .Thanks.<br />
My first impression reading that part was that the causal connection between Ito&#8217;s case and the present political situation as described might not be strong enough.<br />
 It might be true that if Ito&#8217;s case was tried, Japanese political situation as it is might be different. But it might also be true that even if Ito&#8217;s case was tried, Japanese political situation might be the same because the other factors are making the present situation as it is.</p>
<p>And the point that made me pick up Thomas Jefferson is the way you put the final sentence.</p>
<blockquote><p>a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn</p></blockquote>
<p> It might be my prejudice, but it sounded like you were from a superior nation, and it was your burden or something to teach what the rule of law is.<br />
  USA is more developed politically and economically. I have all the respect for USA. And actually Japanese  have learned the rule of law mainly from USA. Japanese present constitution is heavily influenced by American thought.<br />
 But somehow, I sensed a sort of superior complex from the sentence, or it may be the reflection of my inferior complex. Either way, I wanted to ascertain your mindset toward it: You have  proved to be fair.<br />
Sorry if I offended you.</p>
<p>I think it is helpful for Japanese people to show how<br />
USA has tackled the similar issue, in order to understand Japanese issue better. </p>
<p>Thanks
</p>
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		<title>by: DeOrio</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4232</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:50:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4232</guid>
					<description>Ponta, good to see you.
The comparison is fair.  It is, of course, true that there are numerous instances of the written law and practice not lining up or being flouted in the US.  American politicians certainly do get away with things that other people would not and some American politicians do indeed abuse their power to cover up their own misdeeds or those of their cronies.  The current administration is a fine example of that.
I firmly agree with you that a number of highly regarded American icons have engaged in foul behavior and got off easy because of who they were.
Hell, I'd take a (preferably castrated) Ito as a leader over, say, U.S. Grant or Warren Harding any day.

The only difference I currently see, in terms of government officials, between the US and Japan is that the US is somewhat more willing to prosecute sitting officials, especially if they aren't the President (although the US has impeached, although not convicted, two Presidents.)  Criminal investigations of Diet members occur, but are relatively rare considering the number of allegations of graft, in particular, involving the national government.  Prefectural governors can be taken down, but there seems to an unwritten rule that graft is winked at in the Diet.

As for sex scandals, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Sugimura dating Hata's secretary just after getting engaged and Mori's hiring a prostitute when he was a student - neither very major.  American politicians, on the other hand, have a lot more public sex scandals.
There are two ways to interpret this: either Japanese politicians are relatively well-behaved in that arena (possible) or such scandals ae covered up or are so routine as to draw little attention (also possible.)

All of that said, when considering Ito Hirobumi's influence on later Japanese politicians, does it really matter what American politicians have done?  Thankfully, their political influence over Japan is limited and indirect.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ponta, good to see you.<br />
The comparison is fair.  It is, of course, true that there are numerous instances of the written law and practice not lining up or being flouted in the US.  American politicians certainly do get away with things that other people would not and some American politicians do indeed abuse their power to cover up their own misdeeds or those of their cronies.  The current administration is a fine example of that.<br />
I firmly agree with you that a number of highly regarded American icons have engaged in foul behavior and got off easy because of who they were.<br />
Hell, I&#8217;d take a (preferably castrated) Ito as a leader over, say, U.S. Grant or Warren Harding any day.</p>
<p>The only difference I currently see, in terms of government officials, between the US and Japan is that the US is somewhat more willing to prosecute sitting officials, especially if they aren&#8217;t the President (although the US has impeached, although not convicted, two Presidents.)  Criminal investigations of Diet members occur, but are relatively rare considering the number of allegations of graft, in particular, involving the national government.  Prefectural governors can be taken down, but there seems to an unwritten rule that graft is winked at in the Diet.</p>
<p>As for sex scandals, the only ones I can think of off the top of my head are Sugimura dating Hata&#8217;s secretary just after getting engaged and Mori&#8217;s hiring a prostitute when he was a student - neither very major.  American politicians, on the other hand, have a lot more public sex scandals.<br />
There are two ways to interpret this: either Japanese politicians are relatively well-behaved in that arena (possible) or such scandals ae covered up or are so routine as to draw little attention (also possible.)</p>
<p>All of that said, when considering Ito Hirobumi&#8217;s influence on later Japanese politicians, does it really matter what American politicians have done?  Thankfully, their political influence over Japan is limited and indirect.
</p>
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		<title>by: ponta</title>
		<link>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4227</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Dec 2006 15:12:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.transpacificradio.com/2006/12/21/ito-hirobumi/#comment-4227</guid>
					<description>Hi, pretty interesting.
&lt;blockquote&gt;
However, it is also possible that others of his generation and background had similar ideas and that his deserved disgrace would have set the precedent of no one being above the law on paper being carried out in practice and, to extrapolate, the concept of the law on paper being the law in reality - a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn, whatever good ideas they may have inherited from Ito.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
  It might be much more interesting and help me understad the point if you gave some  examples, comparing the cases in the US.
  The concept of the rule of law as against rule by law is learned at school. After all Japanese present constitution is the emobodiment of it. It might not be perfect, but people tend to think it is working in Japanese society.

  And is it also possbile that others of his generation and background had similar ideas and that his deserved disgrace would have set the precedent of all man bening created equal on paper being carried out in practice and, to extrapolate, the concept of racial equality on paper being  in reality - a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn, whatever good ideas they may have inherited from  Thomas Jefferson, father of their Declaration of Independence, fathered children by his slave ?
http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0504/p09s01-coop.html
Or is the comparison inadequate?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi, pretty interesting.</p>
<blockquote><p>
However, it is also possible that others of his generation and background had similar ideas and that his deserved disgrace would have set the precedent of no one being above the law on paper being carried out in practice and, to extrapolate, the concept of the law on paper being the law in reality - a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn, whatever good ideas they may have inherited from Ito.</p></blockquote>
<p>  It might be much more interesting and help me understad the point if you gave some  examples, comparing the cases in the US.<br />
  The concept of the rule of law as against rule by law is learned at school. After all Japanese present constitution is the emobodiment of it. It might not be perfect, but people tend to think it is working in Japanese society.</p>
<p>  And is it also possbile that others of his generation and background had similar ideas and that his deserved disgrace would have set the precedent of all man bening created equal on paper being carried out in practice and, to extrapolate, the concept of racial equality on paper being  in reality - a concept the rulers of this nation have yet to learn, whatever good ideas they may have inherited from  Thomas Jefferson, father of their Declaration of Independence, fathered children by his slave ?<br />
<a href='http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0504/p09s01-coop.html' rel='nofollow'>http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0504/p09s01-coop.html</a><br />
Or is the comparison inadequate?
</p>
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